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Supplements and dietary tweaking
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This is a thread to talk about the various vitamins, minerals and herbal supplements we are or were taking: why, what for, what works and what doesn't.
Strictly speaking, if you are a healthy person getting three squares a day you are unlikely to need any extra help in the form of supplements. It's also possible to to overdo it, going into vitamin overdose. That being said, supplements can and do help with various conditions.
I take a daily calcium pill for the good of my bones, and also because it greatly relieves muscle cramps (especially at that time of the month). The ones I'm taking right now include a dose of vitamin D, which is implicated in mood and intellect issues. A daily high-strength cod liver/fish oil pill tops up the vitamin D; it also, in theory, helps my manky joints and mood with EPA and DHA goodness. I experimented with glucosamine for my arthritis but it seemed, if anything, to make things worse, so i jacked it in. I will soon be adding some extra magnesium to the heap one way or the other.
I also take a daily multivit w/iron, as I get anaemic very easily. Because I don't eat a lot of meat, I tweak my diet with B-vitamin-containing foods, especially yeast extract.
I've begun taking a couple of l-arginine caps before and after exercise, to support my very slow muscle rehabilitation after spending most of last year on my back, an abreaction to some meds having wrecked my muscle tone. This has been helpful, but I may switch up to nitric oxide.
Herbs: I am always looking for things that will alleviate my chronic clinical depression; I'm less interested in the low mood aspect than in fixing my low energy levels and damaged concentration/cognition. St. John's wort had a lacklustre effect on me, although a sufficiently high dose of a particular brand seemed helpful for a while. I tried, and quit, ginko biloba some years ago; it seemed to lower my fit threshold and increase the number of seizures I was having at the time. I may try it again now that i am largely seizure-free.
I think I may at last have found some that work for me. I've been taking rhodiola rosea (aka Aaron's rod, goldenroot, rose root or arctic root) for about a week and Sceletium tortuosum (kanna) for rather less than that. I've experienced a definite lift in mood; remains to be seen if they will do what I hope they will do, which is fix my productivity. (Something that just wraps me in a warm blanket of smug contentment while getting fuck-all done is basically useless). I also take a lemonbalm/skullcap tincture before bed, which wasn't my idea but which seems to do... something.
I also drink megabuckets of coffee for its antidepressant effect. Coffee is magic and makes you be a superhero. It's true.
What are you on? What are you not on?
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Coffee and fags, not that it counts for the purposes of this thread!
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Coffee totally counts. I've self-medicated with coffee since childhood; having fresh-brewed sometimes as well as instant makes a big difference to my overall wellbeing.
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It certainly wakes me up, but I've gotten more and more caffeine sensitive as I grow older. In my early to mid 20s I'd easily have 5-6 cups a day, now I rarely have more than 2. I fucking love the taste of coffee though, without in any way being a snob about it - it has to be strong and black, that's about it, I'll have instant or that stuff that gets shat out by a jungle cat, doesn't matter JUST GIMME MA COFFEES.
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The fresh stuff having more of the compounds in it that improve mood and concentration is the distinction for the purposes of this thread. (The fact that it doesn't taste like floor-sweepings is a plus, of course.)
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Yeah of course I prefer a fresh-brewed cuppa. Speaking of which.....
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I love coffee. The black coffee after work makes the difference between a decent gym session or snoozing on the sofa. I'm generally sceptical of a lot of performance-enhancement type supplements, but coffee works so well.
This year I've taken 1000mg vit C and 15mg zinc before bed each night and I haven't had any colds. This is unusual and I think the first time I've survived cold season unscathed. I really want to claim that as a success but a lot of what's attributed to vitamin c sounds like bullshit, so yeah, maybe... it's cheap and seems to work so I'm going to keep using it, but I'm not praising it from the rooftops just yet. OTOH, I also seem to be sleeping better and recovering from muscle soreness quicker. Zinc has a well-substantiated relationship with the endocrine system, particularly growth hormone and IGF-1, and along with magnesium, is meant to be a good sleep aid. There is also some evidence to suggest that vitamin C can reduce soreness, although the exact mechanism is unclear (hormones? sleep? anti-oxidant capability?).
As an aside, that study is also a prime example of why sports science needs to be drastically improved: a sample size of 18 men, tested with elbow flexions in one arm? Pretty rigorous stuff.
Other than that I take a multi, and about 6-9 fish oil caps a day for supposed anti-inflammatory benefits. This may also account for the decreased soreness I've experience this year.
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Mordant Carnival said: I also take a lemonbalm/skullcap tincture before bed, which wasn't my idea but which seems to do... something
When I was suffering from insomnia last year and valerian stopped working, a herbalist recommended skullcap. I think I know what you mean. It was like valerian made me drowsy and knocked me out, whereas skullcap turned down my worries and made me calm enough to switch off. It was subtle but almost more valuable. -
Coffee is so ftw! Ever since I read that report about its antidepressant effects I've been making a point of drinking at least two cups a day.I'm also currently taking fish oil and a calcium-magnesium-vitamin D3 complex, and in a season where I would normally be suffering from SAD, I'm feeling pretty good.Oddly, my allergies aren't acting up, either. Everyone around me is dying of cedar fever and snarfing antihistamines, and all I have is a tiny bit of post-nasal drainage - barely noticeable. To my knowledge, though, that's not among the benefits of anything I'm taking, so I'm not sure what's going on there...
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Back in the 80s during the smart drug/nutrient craze I took a buttload of Durk & Sandy's finest -- a super ridiculous megadose of vitamins, twelve capsules a day.
I generally felt pretty good, but I also was in my early 20s and doing yoga at least an hour every day, so it's hard to isolate the effect of the supplements, if any. And I think they may have done a number on my digestive system.
Also took choline and a few other amino acids for fitness, with no notable effect. And sometimes worked a smart bar at San Francisco raves, but I suspect the massive doses of caffeine in the drinks had more of an effect on purchasers than, say, phenylalanine.
The smart drugs had much more of a notable effect. For example, vasopressin, back when it could be ordered by mail from the U.K. But probably not ideal for someone with a history of kidney stones.
These days all I take is a standard multivitamin. And a moderate amount of caffeine, in coffee. And a (prescribed) pharmaceutical here or there, as necessary or appropriate.
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I am a huge fan of Reishi mushroom aka Ling Zhi "the mushroom of immortality" which I've found to be an excellent adaptogen that has helped me expand my abilities to handle stress exponentially. I don't experience "less stress" it just leaves faster and is handled far more efficiently. I credit using it in a formula with tibetan rhodiola and some other stuff with helping me get to a place where I could attend grad school. It's in my regular mix, but I don't do anything everyday anymore.This was more source, I don't agree with everything these guys do and their prices are very high, but the quality is outstanding
http://www.dragonherbs.com/ the website had a lot of information about chinese herbs the last time I checked and not all of it was sales hype.Since spending a year and a half in chinese medicine school my views on herbs have shifted a bit, but I'm inbetween classes right now and don't have much time to post.Another site who's recommendations I like is
http://perfecthealthdiet.com/?page_id=1066 I like their approach to diet and supplementation.The only thing I really take everyday is tea. Oolong, and green teas mostly, pu'er often.Gotta run, more on this subject later. -
I've never been much for regular vitamins despite also never having been much for eating three proper meals a day...These days, though, in an effort to get healthier, I've paired my existing SSRIs with a vitamin D pill (for the SAD) and a B complex pill (for general stress, because I'm a stress monkey, and have problems with my adrenal systems) with Folic Acid ('cause I want kids someday, no really.)They're all water soluble, so anything I don't absorb comes right back out again. This has given me the amusing way of tracking whether I took my meds for the day by whether my pee is chartreuse!-E-
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iLibertine said: I am a huge fan of Reishi mushroom aka Ling Zhi "the mushroom of immortality" which I've found to be an excellent adaptogen
I'm very interested in mushrooms. I have read that they contain a lot of protein, and new research seems to show that they have insane disease-fighting powerz too.
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New herbz (rhodiola rosea) seem to be reducing the pain/inflammation of my arthritis -- it's been significantly easier to get up and downstairs the last few days (and this after having my recovery go back a bit due to sicks).
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SO pleased you have found something that is working well for you - well done!
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MC - Paul Stamets for mushrooms. www.fungi.com Just in case you hadn't come across him before.
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Hey, you lot on the coffee buzz - going back a few years to undergrad physiology lectures I recall the major mechanism of action for caffiene was thought to be phosphodiesterase inhibition leading to building up of intracellular stress messenger cAMP. Has this been overturned? It doesn't altogether fit with claims of coffee being great for a body. Prolonging the cAMP signal interferes with a body's ability to do basic housekeeping and cellular cleanup functions, and has the risk of exhausting the adrenals which means there might not be an adrenalin surge there when you actually need one, for example if your body is experiencing a sudden inflamation reaction.
I am sure it's not wrong there are some positive effects, it's interesting to read how those may be mediated, probably similar to the way parents don't tend to get ill as easily as the unencumbered, maybe through similar cellular mechanisms; but it's worth, if my understanding is sound, being aware of how far the cAMP hit is pushing a body's metabolism into overload, and caring about the underlying health state of the body, right?
As far as I am aware, being able to have nervous system downtime (could say parasympathetic branch dominance) is necessary for ongoing health, and I have heard things like - "3 % emergency room [high sympathetic branch activity] 97 % healing room [parasympathetic branch - happy relaxed gurgling from your gut is a good indicator]" as a good rule of thumb for organizing life. I am aiming to operating in a relaxed and happy mode 97 % of the time and just having that 3 % for stuff like running to the bus, catching something that is going flying physically or metaphorically, handling a child who is struggling to express difficult feelings appropriately, intervening in some social situation that needs some attention, and so on.
I know industrial society doesn't encourage this kind of thinking, probably prefers us to push to bust and then die quietly, but I try to reference off hunter-gatherer lifestyles wherever possible on the Frank principle [cf Kim Stanley Robinson's forty/fifty/sixty series] which is more or less that we hominids shared 2 M years of evolutionary adaption in hunter-gatherer mode and have only skipped across a puny 10 k years post agriculture + cities, so try to build a life that honours the hunter-gatherer mode wherever possible for ongoing health & wellbeing. Also I find coffee v tempting, don't like milk, and don't like the way it stains my teeth, and needed to give my perspective-against coffee a bit of an airing for cross-checking, obv.
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wonderland said: I recall the major mechanism of action for caffiene was thought to be phosphodiesterase inhibition leading to building up of intracellular stress messenger cAMP. Has this been overturned?
To the best of my knowledge, no; and I'm aware that despite its admitted benefits coffee probably isn't the best thing to be using/abusing. Right now though I'm kind of in survival mode and having to grab at medium-term benefits while letting some longer-term ones slide a little. The benefits, especially the benefits to mood and performance, are all things that need right now and I don't have any other easy way to meet those needs.
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To support you in your decision to stay off the bean -- there are lots of good reasons to avoid caffeine in general and coffee in particular, not least the social justice aspect of coffee growing. I buy fair trade, but at the end of the day it's still a cash crop. On a health level, another thign about coffee is that it's pretty acidic and not the nicest thing for your stomach -- I offset this by drinking extra water before and after but it's still a consideration.
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wonderland said: It doesn't altogether fit with claims of coffee being great for a body.
I just had my first cup of caffeinated coffee in about two months half an hour ago and YOU SHUT YOUR LYING MOUTH!
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It was an ACCIDENT because I didn't read the SWEDISH package from the IKEA carefully because early in the morning, and usually I prefer tea (during the day, "black", but in the morning with milk) but was trying to be THE GOOD SPOUSE although my beloved didn't want the caffeinated kind at all because it makes her CRANKY through the day, which may be true, I suppose, I'll grant you that one, but I have LOTS OF THINGS TO DO now.
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I have been taking care to eat breaky recently (if for no other reason than to stop all these flipping pills from rattling in my stomach when I walk) -- usually 2 toasts with marge and marmite, small bit of cheese and a fruit or some juice. Seems to help the rest of the day suck less.
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Blurgh.
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Marmite ftw!
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You're only using it to punish yourself people. Stop this pointless masochism.
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Mmm, marmite. Yeasty goodness. Think I'll have a big thick marmitey sammige. Or a cup of hot marmite drink. Heck, maybe I'll just lick it right off the spoon.
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Serves you right WITCH.
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Half a spoonful of marmite in half cup warm water, add to 1/4 cup cooking sherry, 1/4 cup vinegar, a few drops of sesame oil, you've got the basis for a really nice stir fry stock. (Add a little cornstarch dissolved in hot water, a shot of soy sauce and some five-spice powder... maybe a bit of sugar, maybe some cayenne).Five-spice powder often contains licorice, which is one of the Big Effective Herbs for some things. Sugar regulation in the blood? Immortality?
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Gan Cao/licorice needs to be consumed in absurd quantities before it begins to affect the hypertensive, according to my professors.
Had my Golden Root Pu'er today. Pu'er with some Rhodiola Rosea in it. Whoop!
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According to my friend, any formula with the slightest bit of Gan Cao in it, whether he knows it's there or not, even an over the counter boxed tea like "Traditional Medicinals", will give him heart palpitations and headache. And he doesn't have very high blood pressure. He would like to be able to use it for blood sugar regulation, but even small amounts seem to be not so good for him. His case is likely to be unusual (or at least every one of his herbal practitioners were surprised by it).
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Huh, your friend sounds like an interesting case. :)
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I have commited herbal soup.
One of my professors gave us an herbal formula that is made into chicken soup.
So that's what I did.
Herbal components among others, are Ling Zhi/Reishi, Huang Qi/Astragulus, Goji, and honey fried Gan Cao. Oh yes and cordyceps.
Soup bits include, onion, cabbage, grated daikon, and shiitake. (And chicken, naturally.)
It's for seasonal affective meh.
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There are a few Chinese herbs I won't take, mostly because they're made of endangered animals, but cordyceps is on the list just because it gives me the SCREAMING HEEBIE JEEBIES. This fungus infects ant brains and turns them crawling undead horrors and you want me to boil it into a soup and EAT IT?
This has nothing to do with me quitting acupuncture school.
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Lab grown "vegetarian" cordyceps are widely available now, and many herbalists I know claim theyr'e just as good as the old school kind.
They are weird as hell though, that's for damn sure.
If it's not prying entity, which school did you quit and why?
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I think, oddly, that's reassuring. Thanks!
One which no longer exists that used to operate in Florida. I was sitting through classes for six hours a day where the professors—extremely knowledgeable and intelligent people themselves, many of them PhDs—were droning through reading the textbook to us out loud because they were being paid minimum wage to teach, not much more for their required clinic hours, and housed in crappy tiny shacks in back of the school. The school was on the verge of folding, and indeed it did so shortly after I left. But mostly I was just questioning whether I really wanted acupuncture to be my career, and I decided I love healing too much to be successful at it professionally, if that makes any sense. I was unhappy and tired all the time. I decided to go back to college and do something else.
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Ah. I do not enjoy the institutional aspects of learning Chinese Medicine, nor the politicking.
I have no special feelings about being a "healer", I can help people who come to me for the help I have to offer.
Altogether I understand your decision.
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I've been reading about a calcium supplement derived from seaweed that's supposedly able to restore bone density (as opposed to just preventing bone loss, like regular calcium supplements). Anyone know anything about this? I'm wondering if it would do my osteoarthritic knees any good.
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iLib, my partner is a psychiatric social worker, and like you (I imagine) he is successful precisely because despite being very good at what he does, he has no attachment to the idea of "healing" or "saving" or "fixing" people. I've mostly worked through my own egoistic delusions now, but at the time it was really strong for me, and so it was a good thing I got out of the profession.
That is interesting, MC. I am wondering how much you have to take to supply the calcium to your bones to restore density, and if so much calcium would likely have an effect on one's kidneys. I hope you'll check in with a good nutritionist and let us know—hope it will work for you. I suppose glucosamine doesn't help because it's osteoarthritis?
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The jury is still out on glucosamine's general effectiveness for OA; there was a study in the BMJ a couple of years back which seemed to pretty much blow it out of the water, but then lots of people pointed out ways in which the study was a bit crap, so we don't really know. Didn't do much for me but some people swear by it.
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As to the calcium/kidneys thing -- it's being claimed that if you take the seaweed-derived supplement you get lots of extra minerals that help your body absorb the calcium more effectively and lay it down in your bones rather than your arteries and other places you don't want calcium. The people claiming this all seem to be hawking seaweed calcium supplements, but I'm sure that's sheer coincidence.
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I've heard various things about certain forms of calcium being hard to absorb. Supposedly milk is a poor form of calcium for instance, even though that goes against everything we've heard, and that spinach and leafy greens had better bioavailability. So seaweed seems plausible. However, this seems irrelevant if you consume large doses. Surely if you drink lots of milk, or take lots of supplements, you'd be consuming so much calcium that it would outweigh any absorption issues. In clinics that actually treat bone problems they give you meals containing small fish. To me this seems like it would be the best source because you'd be eating actual bones. What better way to make more bones?
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